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Vintage Beacon: Is S.C.O.P.E. a real organization?

A Vintage Beacon item — the paper reprinting its own earlier material. The archive does not attribute it to a writer.

Community Dave Bossert Environment Local Opinion Santa Clarita Valley

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(While Dave is on vacation we thought our readers would enjoy reading this commentary from August 2011) Is the Santa Clarita Organization for Planning the Environment (SCOPE) a real organization working for the benefit of the entire Santa Clarita Valley? I really don’t know the answer to that question because I can’t seem to get a straight answer from that organization. This has made me quite inquisitive and wanting to start looking into that question and others!

So I did what most of us do these days and that is turn to my trusty computer and navigated to the SCOPE website. On the SCOPE website they state the following; “We invite you to contact SCOPE and get involved with helping the Santa Clarita Valley become a better place to live. SCOPE welcomes your participation in its many ongoing projects, and would be happy to supply you with additional information upon request. Probably the best way to get to know SCOPE is to attend one of our regular meetings. SCOPE meetings are open to the public, and often include important presentations and discussion on the issues affecting our community.”

Well, back on Tuesday, July 26, 2011, I sent an email to Lynne Plambeck, the President of SCOPE, asking when the next Santa Clarita Organization for Planning the Environment meeting would be held in the Santa Clarita Valley. I did not receive a response from Ms. Plambeck so I sent another email on July 30^th pointing out that this was my second email and all I wanted to know was when the next SCOPE meeting would be held. I simply asked; “could you forward the SCOPE meeting schedule for the remainder of 2011 to me?”

Plambeck responded to my second email with the following message; “Hi Dave – Sorry I must have missed your other email. We have a Board meeting coming up. Did you want to make a presentation or something?” Note how she did not answer my simple request but rather asked another question.

So I responded back by saying; “Hello Lynne, Can you tell when, where and what time the next SCOPE meeting is set for? Thank you.” Lynne responded with; “Our public meeting is coming up towards the end of August. I’ll let you know and make sure that we send a notice to the West Ranch Beacon. Thanks for your interest.”

Today is Monday, August 29, 2011; I still have not received any notice of a public meeting coming up “towards the end of August.” I regard at least a weeks notice as a normal, common courtesy when having a public meeting so essentially there is no August meeting since the month is over on Wednesday. And if she or anyone else claims this was an oversight that I didn’t get any notification they are being disingenuous.

I say that because it was clear from the email that Ms. Plambeck was suspect of my inquiry and it appears that her organization is not truly interested in having just anybody attend their “open to the public” meetings. In fact if you look at SCOPE’s website it has not been updated with a current “newsletter” since the fall of 2009, that’s three years ago! It appears as though the website is being maintained intermittently and is not completely current or up to date.

Also, I noticed on the site that there is a disproportionate amount of focus on the Newhall Ranch project. This certainly begs the question; is SCOPE really an entity that initiates litigation with local developers rather than actually protecting the environment?

I’m asking that question because that is what they appear to do; oppose and sue over just about any sizable development in the Santa Clarita Valley. Even when a project like Newhall Ranch is going to designate more than 60% of the existing property as permanent open space and leave intact more than 18,000 oak trees not to mention the thousands of addition trees that will be added to the overall project.

When are the regular SCOPE meetings, educational programs, or environmental projects that can add value to our valley community?

I’ve asked a cross-section of folks in the North Los Angeles County area if SCOPE has ever come to the table to discuss environmental issues associated with a development. The response was mostly no with one saying that SCOPE will only come to the table for the mandatory mediation after a lawsuit is filed. SCOPE apparently once had agreed to abide by the opinion of a mutually selected biologist’s report only to pull out after the fact disregarding the agreement they made.

This essentially appears to be tactics to prolong and delay the development process. The time and money being spent on such a strategy ultimately trickles down to the consumer. All the costs of project interruptions and legal expenses are passed on in the price of the homes; schools are delayed which leads to overcrowding and busing (which adds carbon emissions to the Valley, not very environmentally friendly!) and jobs are lost which impacts our local and regional economies & environment.

Community organizations should be open and welcoming to residents interested in educating themselves. Most local organizations and clubs are open and egger to greet newcomers and the curious. SCOPE claims on their website to have “regular meetings” that are “open to the public” yet have not been forthcoming with that information. Why?

Is SCOPE a private club, discriminating against certain members of the public who wish to attend their meetings or become a member of their organization? Are members of the Santa Clarita Valley community being disenfranchised by not being provided the appropriate meeting information? Is SCOPE really an entity that was solely organized to sue developers while masquerading as a non-profit?

These are some of the questions that I have thought about since not getting the meeting information I requested. It is inconceivable that a simple request of “when is your next meeting” has not gotten a straight answer. SCOPE should have their regular meeting schedule for the entire year posted along with up-to-date information on their activities. Without that flow of information then we have to start wondering what they may be hiding or is SCOPE just nothing more than a shell for Ms. Plambeck’s personal agenda?

Dave Bossert- Commentary

Dave Bossert is a community volunteer who serves on a number of boards and councils. His commentaries represent his own opinions and not necessarily the views of any organization he may be affiliated with or those of the West Ranch Beacon.

Comments

28 · as published

August 29, 2011 – Daily Brief | SCVTalk.com
August 29, 2011 – Daily Brief | SCVTalk.com Says: August 29th, 2011 at 9:04 am [...] Dave Bossert asks whether SCOPE is a real organization WRB [...]
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: August 29th, 2011 at 2:04 pm Dave, you are taking an innocent sitution, and ascribing all sorts of evil interpretation to it. This isn’t journalism, it’s fiction. SCOPE meeitngs are indeed open to the public, and they are typically noticed on the website well ahead of the meetings. I manage the website for SCOPE as time allows. The lack of currency is a result of my not having time to update it regularly for the past few months. I had been taking care of my ill father in his final days; he passed in mid-July and my time has been rather hectic as I take care of his estate and related matters. I also started a new job this month and have been out of the state training for half of the month. The website has had to take a distant third in my life priority list at the moment. But you describe this situation as some sort of consiracy to leave the public out of the organization’s activities. Do you still believe this is so? Will you print a retraction? According to your column, Lynne offered to specifically contact you when the date is set, and also made it clear that if you desired to make a presentation that you could discuss this with her. Where is the deceit you allege? As for your views on Newhall Ranch, you completely misrepresent both the intent and actualization of SCOPE’s actions to improve the development to protect both the environment in and around the river, and also the financial well-being of the community by raising issues of public infrastructure and other costs that the developer alone should bear, not those who currently live here.
admin
admin Says: August 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm Phil, No it’s not fiction, it is an opinion which raises valid questions whether you like it or not. There is no evidence of “typically noticed” meetings on the SCOPE website hence my email to Lynne which resulted in no straight answer. If there was no intention to have an August meeting then just say so, notice it to the community. If you are unable to fulfill you duties of maintaining the website than maybe the organization should designate another individual to handle that task. Often times a club and organization will have several individuals to handle various assignments; that is just smart management. You state; “As for your views on Newhall Ranch, you completely misrepresent both the intent and actualization of SCOPE’s actions to improve the development to protect both the environment in and around the river, and also the financial well-being of the community by raising issues of public infrastructure and other costs that the developer alone should bear, not those who currently live here.” If SCOPE’s intent was to actually do what you say then your group would be at the table working with the developers and other community groups such as the Town Councils to give input to improve the projects. There is no evidence of that only what appears to be continuous litigation to delay, disrupt and otherwise stop various projects. If SCOPE is a “no growth” group then just come out and say it; be honest about it. Your club seems to attempt to hold everyone else’s feet to the fire, I’m merely doing the same in wanting to get the information that I requested. If Lynne tells me that there will be a meeting by the end of August and a notice will be sent out I have no reason to think otherwise. If on the other hand there is no notification then I have every right to ask where that information is and to bring up other questions. Thank you, -Dave
notthepartyline
notthepartyline Says: August 29th, 2011 at 10:41 pm So you didn’t get invited to a party that didn’t even happen and you have to hyperventilate your “suspicions.” Breath into a paper bag slowly—that’s right slowly—feeling better yet?
admin
admin Says: August 30th, 2011 at 5:43 am It’s not about being invited to “a party” it’s about an organization being run openly and professionally. Based on your sarcastic comment that may not resonate with you but it does with productive community members.
NFIC
NFIC Says: August 30th, 2011 at 7:02 am Last I checked, I don’t see developers reaching out to SCOPE when they are planning their projects… While it would be nice for developers to do so, the experience I’ve seen (with a local, very reputable ex NLF exec) is they have dog and pony shows but are not too interested in community input if it impacts the bottom line much.
admin
admin Says: August 30th, 2011 at 7:24 am Well I guess that you haven’t checked in a long while as there are regular updates, especially on the Newhall Ranch project, at the West Ranch Town Council meetings. Further the folks at NLF have been very accommodating to reasonable requests from the community including roadway realignments. It’s called respectful negotiations and it only happens when there is flexibility on both sides. Sadly I have not seen that from the “no growthers” whose philosophy appears to be that now that they are living SCV there should be no more growth. That’s an inflexible viewpoint that has wasted millions of dollars on lawsuits. Just imagine how much land could have been purchased for open space with that money!
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: August 30th, 2011 at 12:51 pm These strawmen of a “no-growth SCOPE” are false and prove nothing. For years, SCOPE has sent comment letters detailing objections to the Board of Supervisors and the Planning Commission as part of the public input process. Lawsuits are a very small part of the efforts SCOPE has made in improving Newhall Ranch. Those are constructive and specific comments, not “no growth” rhetoric you falsely accuse SCOPE of fomenting. How “open” has NLF been in hiding discoveries of endangered plants? Why do they make environmental consultants (whom they pay) sign non-disclosure agreements, even though they are providing information for the public to examine? The secrecy is on the side of the developers, not SCOPE. Notices of meetings are removed from the websitesonce the meeting occurs. Why would we leave obsolete meeting notices up? Once again there is a reasonable explanation for what you see, but you invent more deceitful intentions that have no basis in fact. We are in fact working with another individual to help with website updates. Unfortunately, he has also suffered the loss of a family member recently, which has slowed the process. I sincerely hope that you are spared the pain and struggles that go with such a loss; your posted insensitivity to these situations tells me you have so far in your life. May those around you show more empathy should this pain find its way into your life.
admin
admin Says: August 30th, 2011 at 4:12 pm Phil, My condolences on your loss! I’ve suffered plenty of loss in my life and fully understand the pain associated with it, but the one thing I don’t do is use it as an excuse to shirk my responsibilities. I don’t throw it in other people’s faces to garner sympathy nor do I wallow in self-pity because of it. You stated; “For years, SCOPE has sent comment letters detailing objections to the Board of Supervisors and the Planning Commission as part of the public input process.” That is all that SCOPE appears to do is object to any development. Claiming that there is secrecy is just more paranoia and excuses that feed into the ridiculous rhetoric that there is some kind of “conspiracy” that the environment is being destroyed when someone puts shovel to dirt. “Notices of meetings are removed from the websites once the meeting occurs. Why would we leave obsolete meeting notices up?” How about posting a complete list of meetings for the entire year or ½ year? That would make it easy for the “public” to plan on attending and also see if they missed a meeting. There is nothing “deceitful” about asking when the meetings are. Why is it so hard for SCOPE to disseminate this information? Not doing so does raise questions. The root of this all goes back to my original request, when are the public SCOPE meetings; where, when and what time are those gatherings? Surely an organization such as SCOPE must have the dates set for the meetings for the remainder of the year. The local area Town Councils do! The City Council of Santa Clarita does! The local Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts do! There are plenty of local clubs and organizations that can tell me when their next meeting is because they meet regularly; why can’t SCOPE? Come on Phil, stop with the pity party and the secrecy or conspiracy rhetoric it doesn’t work. Just give me the date, time and location of your next two or three SCOPE meetings. If you can’t do that then it does beg the question; is SCOPE a private club that picks and chooses its members? If it is just say so!! Thank you, -Dave
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: August 30th, 2011 at 6:52 pm “…use it as an excuse to shirk my responsibilities. I don’t throw it in other people’s faces to garner sympathy nor do I wallow in self-pity because of it.” Really, Dave, your character is truly showing here for your readers to plainly see. And we don’t post all the year’s future meeting dates because they are arranged quarterly, not a year ahead of time, and the location also varies each time. The next meeting is posted on the site now. No secrecy, just the normal process. But you see deceit. In fact, that’s all you seem to see. You know, Dave, if you want to tell SCOPE how to run itself, why not join and be a productive part of it, and not just a critic? We know the answer.
admin
admin Says: August 30th, 2011 at 9:00 pm Finally! The answer to my original question; The next SCOPE meeting is Wednesday, Sept.21st, 7PM WHERE: Reading Room, Barnes and Noble Book Store, 23630 Valencia Blvd. Valencia, CA 91355; Regular Business meeting to follow speaker. As I’ve stated previously; not posting meetings in advance and jumping the location around only makes it that much more difficult for the public to attend. Maybe that is the intention or maybe it is just ineptness in running an organization. I’m not telling you how to run SCOPE but am making suggestions; since you are inviting me to join, I may do just that to help make your group more user friendly and productive. Which makes you wrong, you don’t know the answer. One last thing Phil, you don’t know me so don’t make an ass out of yourself attacking my character it only diminishes yours. See you on Wednesday the 21st!
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: August 31st, 2011 at 10:48 am Dave, I did not attack your character, I merely stated that it was self-evident in your posts. This makes me “an ass”? Interesting that you feel I cannot draw conclusions about your character, but you feel free to publish invented conclusions about SCOPE, it’s purpose, it’s members’ intentions, etc. The double-standard is plain to see. SCOPE meetings “jump around” both to allow people from different areas of the valley to conveniently attend, and also because as a non-profit, we try to take advantage of low-cost venues when they are available. If you have tried to set up such meetings, you know that most locations require fees, insurance indemnification, and other costs we seek to avoid imposing on our membership.
admin
admin Says: August 31st, 2011 at 5:48 pm Baloney, have you ever heard of a library? The local libraries have public meeting rooms available and will often times waive any fee or insurance requirement especially if there is an educational speaker or presentation. It’s really about wanting to make meetings convenient for the public and not about BS excuses. There are also lodges that allow public meetings and backrooms at various restaurants. You can continue to make excuses or you can expend that energy actually accomplishing something like securing a meeting room so that the public can attend the SCOPE meetings. Jumping the meetings around creates confusion and the impression that your organization is not welcoming of new attendees.
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: August 31st, 2011 at 8:12 pm Only in your mind, Dave. We have had lots of compliments on our meeting location choices, including in local parks, HOA buildings, book stores, even member homes. You seem to be the only person having a problem with this process. But since you are an expert of free meeting locations, I am glad to hear you will be joining us in three weeks, and you can share these wonderful ideas with the group.
admin
admin Says: August 31st, 2011 at 8:43 pm Absolutely Phil! You see the West Ranch Town Council has had a free meeting location for some time. Where there is a will, there is a way. And if you want to use the excuse that people complain about the meetings place then why have a meeting at all? At some point if you pick a central meeting place and stick with it people will accept it and mark their calendars. Moving it around constantly is BS; plain and simple. Keep coming up with more excuses, you are just making a fool of yourself.
Berta González-Harper
Berta González-Harper Says: September 1st, 2011 at 12:06 pm Dave I usually do not agree with you but regarding Scope, unfortunately I do agree. I was a member who years ago realized it is the Lynne and Cam show; no other input is necessary thanks. In addition, you are also correct that the emphasis is on suing and stopping any development even something benefitting the community. Sorry Phil, I mean “spineflower2”, you have called me enough nasty names using your pseudonym for me to be absolutely certain you feel threatened by anyone challenging your so called facts. In my opinion, Scope is a sham “organization” as are some others in this valley, which exist solely to further the agenda (s) of a select few persons under the guise of an open and inclusive committee or group.
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: September 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm I have NEVER called you nasty names, Berta. Never. I don’t sink to name-calling on this or any other forum since the dawn of the internet. That is just a lie. Not the only ones being offered in this thread, it seems. Dave, you have one opinion about meeting locations, but in fact the members have asked for it to move around to various parts of the valley to be more inclusive, and that has been accomodated. Maybe it’s not what YOU want, but our members have been satisfied with the current process. I give considerably less weight to someone who isn’t a member and doesn’t come to meetings. It seems preferable to listen to actual members and attendees, who have been telling us we are doing the right thing. It might be more instructive if you were more open about why you are going after SCOPE sight unseen. I have been waiting for that disclosure, but it seems you want to pose as an unbiased citizen while actually having a dog in this fight. Who is keeping secrets now?
admin
admin Says: September 2nd, 2011 at 9:43 pm Phil, I’m not going after SCOPE, I merely sent an email asking when the next meeting was and did not get a straight answer. I was told that it would be at the end of August and that clearly was not the case. That in turn raised many questions and concerns as to why it was so difficult to get information on SCOPE meetings. You gave all kinds of excuses until finally a meeting was set up. As for the meeting process, it is and will continue to be a hindrance to those that wish to attend and that is being perceived as not being welcoming to new comers. I have no secrets; I’m an environmentally conscience individual who has and continues to support many environmental organizations. I am also supportive of smart, well thought out growth which is no secret. See you at the meeting on the 21st. -Dave
Berta González-Harper
Berta González-Harper Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 12:03 am Phil, aka spineflower2, you called me among other choice things a b!+(# on scvtalk so you are a patent liar. You probably just figured I would never figure out who you really are, a very foolish assumption spiney dear. Very brave using pseudonyms, not so much when exposed huh.
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 9:35 am Lie, lie, lie, Berta. I NEVER called you or anyone else a bitch. It’s not in my nature and ANYone who actually knows me can verify this. I have never made any secret of who I am, here or elsewhere. The pseudonyms started on the old TITTS site and have continued through several successor SCV sites. I have kept the same name for the very reason that I am NOT hiding behind multiple names. Clearly you have me confused with someone else and this libel must stop. The lies and fictional speculation in this thread have reached monumental proportions. It is shameful. With my firsthand knowledge of how reality gets twisted into lies on this blog, I will certainy view any other stories with a great deal of skepticism now.
admin
admin Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 10:48 am That’s right Phil; throw the spotlight away from the facts by claiming that “reality gets twisted.” There is no twisting of reality as the commentary and much of this thread has dealt with the simple request of getting information on the SCOPE meetings. It was a straight forward and simple request yet you keep exacerbating the matter with excuses and wacky claims. What is between you and Berta is your business but please don’t make unfounded statements about this site. We publish news, information and commentaries. Those commentaries are opinions and are just as valid as your views are whether we agree or not. Those opinions can be debated, discussed and argued but it is wrong to call them lies. The only things being viewed with skepticism are your excuse ridden and flaccid statements.
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 12:38 pm Sorry, Dave, you invented motivations about SCOPE members that are not true. You alleged deceit when the fact was my family tragedy and work schedule did not allow me to update the site quickly. Those are facts, not commentary. My God, my father dies, that’s a “wacky claim”?! The inhumanity of your posts is shocking even now. You make unfounded statements about SCOPE, its members, and motivations, yet you don’t allow others to do likewise? Again, a double standard. And as for Berta, I searched on google extensively, and I concede I DID in fact call you a bitch. I stand corrected. Let’s reveal what you said that incited me to this uncharaceriastc comment: ========================================== Berta González-Harper says: “I hope every one of those released felons winds up next door to you” =========================================== And my reply: All the posters here say nothing on the subject, but you want to call me out personally? And you actually put in print that you wish criminals are next door to me? Wow, what a hateful bitch! Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? (sorry, Jeff, I just had to swear at this needless personal attack) ========================================== So Berta, you wished for released felons to be surrounding my home and family, with the implied personal safety threat that poses, and yet you whine that I called you a name. I leave it to the readers here to judge whether my wording was called for, given the viciousness and personal nature of your post.
admin
admin Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 12:59 pm Phil, your claims are completely laughable and you continue to use excuses. My original emails were to Lynne Plambeck the President of SCOPE. It was her response that claimed there would be a meeting at the end of August. Further, I raised valid questions when I did not get a straight answer from her and now from you. Your distorted claims are way off the mark and you are stretching any shred of comprehending what was written. It’s pointless to continue this debate.
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 2:24 pm Please tell me how I am distorting my job and family situations, Dave. Those are the reasons for the tardy meeting notice on the website. No opinion, no commentary, no excuses, no distortion, nothing laughable (at least to those with a soul), just fact. Also, please tell me what question I am not giving straight answers to. I see none.
Berta González-Harper
Berta González-Harper Says: September 3rd, 2011 at 2:57 pm Dave I agree with you again since it is pointless to continue this debate. It is easy to confirm that Phil, aka spineflower2, is the one who is distorting the facts and lies. Just reading his comments in multiple posts here confirms that. I also stand by my statements regarding Scope. You are correct to question whether it is a legitimate community organization or exists solely to provide credibility for a few individuals with a specific anti development agenda.
admin
admin Says: September 4th, 2011 at 8:17 am Berta, Phil admitted he lied when he realized that his personal attach against you could still be found online. His ramblings show that he is filled with excuses and is not being truthful all to suit his own needs. He seems to think that this all revolves around SCOPE’s inability to post a meeting notice. It’s clear he doesn’t want to address the fact that the President of SCOPE said there would be a meeting at the end of August when there wasn’t one planned. Is not being truthful how some of the SCOPE members operate? Phil Hof appears to be making it up as he goes and continues to rely on excuses instead of the facts. It’s clear from what he called you that he just wants to name call and attack the character of anyone that criticizes SCOPE. That reflects poorly on Phil!
Phil Hof
Phil Hof Says: September 4th, 2011 at 10:38 am More distortion and spin, Dave. That seems to be all you can post about SCOPE, when the truth doesn’t fit your preconceived notions and your agenda. Unlike you, I took the effort to fact check even my own claims, and when my search proved one of them incorrect, I admitted it and provided the citation to show what was really said. “Reatraction” is apparently not in your personal dictionary, no matter how called-for it becomes. I am man enough to stand by my words, admit when I am wrong, and post it. That shows I have the integrity to put truth above argument. That is how we are different. If only you would do the same with your incorrect and fictional explanations for events I have given the facts for. But apparently that is expecting too much of you. With an invited speaker, timing can depend not only on what the President prefers, but also the schedules of the venue and of the speaker. Again, Dave, you want to invent some secretive and sinister exclusionary reason for what is an ordinary and reasonable occurance. If you prefer to live in this paranoid fanstasy world where SCOPE is out to get you, I can’t seen to rescue you with facts. Fortunately, readers of this… blog… can see for themselves, despite your attempts to spin the facts, what really is going on. So, Dave, so you believe I made up my getting a new job? That I made up my dad’s terminal illness and his death? That I made up my training on the east coast for two weeks while you were having this conversation with Lynne? All just “pity parties, excuses, name-calling, and lies,” right? I welcome meeting you at the SCOPE meeting, Dave. See, people like you are very big when hiding behind the veil of the internet, free to post or edit as you see fit on your site, always with the last word. But we will see if in front of decent human beings you still want to stick to your story that I am making all this up. See my dad’s obituary and death certificate and tell me I am lying about it. Show you my travel expense report showing why I was out of town and away from my computer. Tell me to my face that those are not good reasons to be tardy in updating a volunteer website. Do you really have the courage of your internet-posted convictions? Is this really the person you strive to be before God and your friends? Are you really proud of this behavior? Your readers will want to know the character of the publisher here, in order to judge just what kind of organization YOU are running.
admin
admin Says: September 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm Phil, the excuses that I sighted have nothing to do with your personal life and everything to do with the lack of information on the SCOPE website. You can read whatever you want into it but the bottom line is that there doesn’t seem to be any regular meeting schedule for SCOPE and the site does not appear to be completely up to date. I am only speaking of the organization; you can call me all the names you want and infer whatever you want by twisting the facts but the bottom-line is that the commentary had everything to do with not getting a satisfactory answer to a simple question of where, when and what time was the next SCOPE meeting from the President of SCOPE or the website. If you re-read my commentary it is about when the meetings are and it raised a lot of questions. I think challenging and question an organizations motives is a healthy thing. I’m not always right, no one is, but I do have a right to an opinion and to question information when it does not appear right to me. When I am told that there would be a meeting at the end of August and there isn’t that raises questions. When the SCOPE website shows the last newsletter update as 2009 that also raises questions to me. Posing questions are just that, questions which are being asked because of the lack of information. If the information was up to date then many of the questions being asked might be moot.